Comments on: Franklin, Paine, and the Enlightenment http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/ Unsolicited Historical Commentary Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:55:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Michelle Kostka http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4228 Michelle Kostka Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:34:38 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4228 I have to agree with Stephanie, it is very easy to see what Franklin considered the "good life". His good life was leading a peaceful life with no extreme indulgences. These values will later appear in the Transcendentalist movement in people like Henry David Thoreau, who lived by himself near a pond in peaceful serenity for a few years and was considered one of the most influential men of the movement. I have to agree with Stephanie, it is very easy to see what Franklin considered the “good life”. His good life was leading a peaceful life with no extreme indulgences. These values will later appear in the Transcendentalist movement in people like Henry David Thoreau, who lived by himself near a pond in peaceful serenity for a few years and was considered one of the most influential men of the movement.

]]> By: Stephanie Bellile http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4175 Stephanie Bellile Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:40:30 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4175 I just wanted to respond to the question about the "good life" that we didn't get a chance to talk about in class. I think it is much easier to see what Franklin views as living a "good life", because he lives his life according to a set of virtues. He even kept track of them throughout the week. Franklin is a strong believer in morality through those virtues and he believes in treating others the same way he would want to be treated (The Golden Rule.) I think it is more difficult to see what Paine views as the "good life." Paine tells us, "My Mind is my church" and that we all need to be "mentally faithful" to ourselves. I think that he believes the "good life" is being able to be free in your mind. People should listen to what their minds are telling them and explore their thoughts. You should also be able to justify your beliefs. He seems to talk about things that other people may think in their minds, but are afraid to say. That is what he means by being "mentally faithful." I just wanted to respond to the question about the “good life” that we didn’t get a chance to talk about in class. I think it is much easier to see what Franklin views as living a “good life”, because he lives his life according to a set of virtues. He even kept track of them throughout the week. Franklin is a strong believer in morality through those virtues and he believes in treating others the same way he would want to be treated (The Golden Rule.)
I think it is more difficult to see what Paine views as the “good life.” Paine tells us, “My Mind is my church” and that we all need to be “mentally faithful” to ourselves. I think that he believes the “good life” is being able to be free in your mind. People should listen to what their minds are telling them and explore their thoughts. You should also be able to justify your beliefs. He seems to talk about things that other people may think in their minds, but are afraid to say. That is what he means by being “mentally faithful.”

]]> By: Josh Kasper http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4173 Josh Kasper Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:13:04 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4173 Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine had Enlightenment principles which expressed in their own ways. Franklin and Paine both believed that there was one Creator who made all things and that Jesus Christ’s teachings were an example to follow. I think that both Paine and Franklin retain some Enlightenment ideas, but Paine did not sugar coat his views. Paine told his ideas bluntly in The Age of Reason which seemed to reflect his anti-Christian belief. In Franklin’s Autobiography his ideas are not as blunt as Paine, but both are very interesting to read. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine had Enlightenment principles which expressed in their own ways. Franklin and Paine both believed that there was one Creator who made all things and that Jesus Christ’s teachings were an example to follow. I think that both Paine and Franklin retain some Enlightenment ideas, but Paine did not sugar coat his views. Paine told his ideas bluntly in The Age of Reason which seemed to reflect his anti-Christian belief. In Franklin’s Autobiography his ideas are not as blunt as Paine, but both are very interesting to read.

]]> By: William Schwartz http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4170 William Schwartz Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:47:00 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4170 I’m impressed that famous people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine had been so openly against the Christian church. They lived in an era in which the majority of people went to church and followed the churches doctrine. While Mr. Franklin did support some churches, he did not follow the doctrine of the church. Paine on the other hand did not like any organized churches, he was against the Turkish church (Islam), and the Jewish church. I do not believe he knew that much about the Jewish faith as well as the Turkish that would allow for him to toss them all into same pot. I’m impressed that famous people like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine had been so openly against the Christian church. They lived in an era in which the majority of people went to church and followed the churches doctrine. While Mr. Franklin did support some churches, he did not follow the doctrine of the church. Paine on the other hand did not like any organized churches, he was against the Turkish church (Islam), and the Jewish church. I do not believe he knew that much about the Jewish faith as well as the Turkish that would allow for him to toss them all into same pot.

]]> By: Jan Cheney http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4167 Jan Cheney Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:58:59 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4167 I think it took a lot of courage for Thomas Paine to speak out against religion. His passionate comments made him an outcast in a highly religious society. Benjamin Franklin was also opposed to being a part of organized religion, however, he accepted the idea that all people had the right to choose to belong to a church. Perhaps his own religious upbringing helped him to be more diplomatic about his views. The fact that both of these men questioned the authenticity of religious institutions proves just how enlightened they truly were. I think it took a lot of courage for Thomas Paine to speak out against religion. His passionate comments made him an outcast in a highly religious society. Benjamin Franklin was also opposed to being a part of organized religion, however, he accepted the idea that all people had the right to choose to belong to a church. Perhaps his own religious upbringing helped him to be more diplomatic about his views. The fact that both of these men questioned the authenticity of religious institutions proves just how enlightened they truly were.

]]> By: Chase Hedrick http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4166 Chase Hedrick Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:09:32 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4166 Both Paine and Franklin, raised and taught in Christian morals, developed their own ideas of a Creator. Both were influential in American revolution and enlightenment. However, their views, shared publicly were much different. I feel that Franklin and Paine felt very much the same towards religion, though Paine is referred to by historian Craig Nelson as "Franklin unleashed" because Franklin was much more cautious about his image. As we discussed in Class, Franklin socialized among many elites, and for a period of time was working his way up in nobility in English society. I would argue that his participation in Churches of his hometown Philadelphia was greatly dictated by promoting his image. I see Franklin as being less willing to jeopardize his popularity and image in sharing his true beliefs. Pain on the other hand, to my knowledge, never found himself a guest among noble society in Europe, and obviously wasn't as reserved in sharing his true beliefs. I don't mean to attack Franklin, he remains, in my opinion, one of the most intriguing men in American History. But I do feel that Paine spoke his mind more openly than Franklin, not as avidly concerned with protecting his image amongst his peers. Thus earning the description, "Franklin unleashed." Both Paine and Franklin, raised and taught in Christian morals, developed their own ideas of a Creator. Both were influential in American revolution and enlightenment. However, their views, shared publicly were much different. I feel that Franklin and Paine felt very much the same towards religion, though Paine is referred to by historian Craig Nelson as “Franklin unleashed” because Franklin was much more cautious about his image. As we discussed in Class, Franklin socialized among many elites, and for a period of time was working his way up in nobility in English society. I would argue that his participation in Churches of his hometown Philadelphia was greatly dictated by promoting his image. I see Franklin as being less willing to jeopardize his popularity and image in sharing his true beliefs. Pain on the other hand, to my knowledge, never found himself a guest among noble society in Europe, and obviously wasn’t as reserved in sharing his true beliefs. I don’t mean to attack Franklin, he remains, in my opinion, one of the most intriguing men in American History. But I do feel that Paine spoke his mind more openly than Franklin, not as avidly concerned with protecting his image amongst his peers. Thus earning the description, “Franklin unleashed.”

]]> By: Matt Streckenbach http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4165 Matt Streckenbach Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:31:27 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4165 I believe in this period of time there was a sort of medium between what was really happening at this time in terms of Scientific enlightment, and Organize Religion. Neither really could dismiss the other, because the scientific's of the enlightenment had not reached the points of today. Because they had not had the Theory of Evolution nor had the grasp of Science we have today with Molecucular Biology an such. I believe in this period of time there was a sort of medium between what was really happening at this time in terms of Scientific enlightment, and Organize Religion. Neither really could dismiss the other, because the scientific’s of the enlightenment had not reached the points of today. Because they had not had the Theory of Evolution nor had the grasp of Science we have today with Molecucular Biology an such.

]]> By: Ryan Heck http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4164 Ryan Heck Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:42:43 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4164 Franklin and Paine have enlightenment ideas. Franklin writes about improving himself.He also talks about deity.Paine also wanted things improved. Paine was anti-christian but did belevie in a God. Franklin and Paine have enlightenment ideas. Franklin writes about improving himself.He also talks about deity.Paine also wanted things improved. Paine was anti-christian but did belevie in a God.

]]> By: Eric Bansemar http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4163 Eric Bansemar Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:34:23 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4163 Both Paine and Franklin were definitely influence by Enlightenment thinking, though Franklin maintained a more scientific view of things as opposed to Paine. When Franklin attempted to live by the list of virutes he had drawn up, he found it difficult to live by some of them. And although he failed in fully achieving some of them, he came away with a greater sense of his capabilities and limitations, just like any good scientist would. Paine, in the Age of Reason, also used reason in his opinions, but seemed to be more guided by his emotions, or at least prey to them. Whereas both he and Franklin ultimately rejected established Christian religions, Paine was much more forceful in suggesting a new philosophy in which to believe. Both Paine and Franklin were definitely influence by Enlightenment thinking, though Franklin maintained a more scientific view of things as opposed to Paine. When Franklin attempted to live by the list of virutes he had drawn up, he found it difficult to live by some of them. And although he failed in fully achieving some of them, he came away with a greater sense of his capabilities and limitations, just like any good scientist would.

Paine, in the Age of Reason, also used reason in his opinions, but seemed to be more guided by his emotions, or at least prey to them. Whereas both he and Franklin ultimately rejected established Christian religions, Paine was much more forceful in suggesting a new philosophy in which to believe.

]]> By: Chris Gould http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4162 Chris Gould Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:03:50 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/franklin-paine-and-the-enlightenment/#comment-4162 I agree both Franklin and Paine had those Enlightenment qualities and I believe both were a big part of the Enlightenment in America. I also was very interested to read about how they both had similar beliefs in god, in that they acknowegded his existance and that hae needed to be part of one's life. Paine was however anti-christian in ways and it was kind of hard for me to understand how on one hand he believes there is and god and a jesus christ but yet he can have is anti-christian beliefs also. Franklin has always amazed me in that he was like our American Da Vinci the guy could do everything and do everything well and was interest to learn about his religous and virtue beliefs. I agree both Franklin and Paine had those Enlightenment qualities and I believe both were a big part of the Enlightenment in America. I also was very interested to read about how they both had similar beliefs in god, in that they acknowegded his existance and that hae needed to be part of one’s life. Paine was however anti-christian in ways and it was kind of hard for me to understand how on one hand he believes there is and god and a jesus christ but yet he can have is anti-christian beliefs also. Franklin has always amazed me in that he was like our American Da Vinci the guy could do everything and do everything well and was interest to learn about his religous and virtue beliefs.

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