Comments for Ex Post Facto http://expostfacto.historytools.org Unsolicited Historical Commentary Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:58:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 Comment on Introduction to Curtis White’s The Spirit of Disobedience by Michelle Kostka http://expostfacto.historytools.org/introduction-to-curtis-whites-the-spirit-of-disobedience/#comment-4328 Michelle Kostka Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:59:57 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/introduction-to-curtis-whites-the-spirit-of-disobedience/#comment-4328 I disagree, I think that we are taught to conform to society. I have been searching for a new station which would actually tell me what is going on in the world. All I have been able to find is cute stories about children who pretend to be a news caster or kids who can sing opera. I wish that we had the kinds of news that other nations have, where you actually get the facts. Our teachers may not be able to beat their students anymore, but there are other ways of punishing students. The one rule my high school had which kept me conforming to their rules was if you got a detention you had to serve it during lunch time, this was the worst sort of punishment since I did not have a lot of classes with my friends so lunch time was the one time that I had to see all of them, if I had gotten a detention I would not get to see them. It was like being grounded by the school. Hardly anyone disobeyed for fear of not seeing their friends that day. We are definitly being taught to conform, even if it is only with subtle hints. I disagree, I think that we are taught to conform to society. I have been searching for a new station which would actually tell me what is going on in the world. All I have been able to find is cute stories about children who pretend to be a news caster or kids who can sing opera. I wish that we had the kinds of news that other nations have, where you actually get the facts.

Our teachers may not be able to beat their students anymore, but there are other ways of punishing students. The one rule my high school had which kept me conforming to their rules was if you got a detention you had to serve it during lunch time, this was the worst sort of punishment since I did not have a lot of classes with my friends so lunch time was the one time that I had to see all of them, if I had gotten a detention I would not get to see them. It was like being grounded by the school. Hardly anyone disobeyed for fear of not seeing their friends that day.

We are definitly being taught to conform, even if it is only with subtle hints.

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 3 by Stephanie Bellile http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4327 Stephanie Bellile Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:55:30 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4327 I don't know if any of you are interested in the connection that music makes with the corporate world, but I thought of something you all may want to look at. Curtis White speaks of our consumer crazed world throughout his book and while I was reading it made me think about a song I heard once. So for those of you who are into punk rock or are just curious you can check out the lyrics to this song at http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Greater-Omaha-lyrics-Desaparecidos/95525D24EB2FC96448256D0A003221BD I don’t know if any of you are interested in the connection that music makes with the corporate world, but I thought of something you all may want to look at. Curtis White speaks of our consumer crazed world throughout his book and while I was reading it made me think about a song I heard once. So for those of you who are into punk rock or are just curious you can check out the lyrics to this song at http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Greater-Omaha-lyrics-Desaparecidos/95525D24EB2FC96448256D0A003221BD

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 3 by Anders Thompson http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4326 Anders Thompson Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:54:16 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4326 At one point in chapter four I was reminded of Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" where a certain popular religion existed based on unending consumption and pleasure. Instead of a future filled with blind consumption White believes we can create a new and better society based on Christian ethics which have not been compromised in the name of economic growth. The continuous growth of consumption is the culture of death against which White rails. Our two party system is focused on providing unending expansion at the expense of the environment, other nations and even of our own citizens. The ultimate concern at hand is a culture supported by destructive policies. At one point in chapter four I was reminded of Heinlein’s “Stranger in a Strange Land” where a certain popular religion existed based on unending consumption and pleasure. Instead of a future filled with blind consumption White believes we can create a new and better society based on Christian ethics which have not been compromised in the name of economic growth. The continuous growth of consumption is the culture of death against which White rails. Our two party system is focused on providing unending expansion at the expense of the environment, other nations and even of our own citizens. The ultimate concern at hand is a culture supported by destructive policies.

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 3 by Thomas Matuszak http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4325 Thomas Matuszak Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:28:02 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4325 I believe that White’s outlook on the future is very positive. He calls for a non-revolutionary movement, because as the world saw in Russia, one major corrupt power took over another major corrupt power. White talks about who we most return back to Henry David Thoreau and John Ruskin’s idea of what it means to be human. His version of a positive future is one that we all look inward and think of what we need and only need to live and be satisfied. Along with Thoreau and Ruskin, White talks about the need to act upon our (the individuals) best interests not our communities. In doing so we will be able to define what it is we need and what it is to be us. I believe that White’s outlook on the future is very positive. He calls for a non-revolutionary movement, because as the world saw in Russia, one major corrupt power took over another major corrupt power. White talks about who we most return back to Henry David Thoreau and John Ruskin’s idea of what it means to be human. His version of a positive future is one that we all look inward and think of what we need and only need to live and be satisfied. Along with Thoreau and Ruskin, White talks about the need to act upon our (the individuals) best interests not our communities. In doing so we will be able to define what it is we need and what it is to be us.

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 3 by Eric Bansemar http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4324 Eric Bansemar Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:21:45 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-3/#comment-4324 The problem with corporate capitalism for White is that is essentailly an extension of fascist thought, in the sense that it does not view the people it exploits as human. It is essentially for this reason that it is the chief villian of the book. For White, it is something that because of its inherent evil, needs to be fought against in order for the spirits of the individuals to survive. To a certain extent his claims are justified, though it is always an issue when you try to use a single stance to explain the actions of a large group of people. It is simply difficult for me to believe that everyone who engages in capitalistic ventures or practices operates under the guise in which Whits says that they do. The problem with corporate capitalism for White is that is essentailly an extension of fascist thought, in the sense that it does not view the people it exploits as human. It is essentially for this reason that it is the chief villian of the book. For White, it is something that because of its inherent evil, needs to be fought against in order for the spirits of the individuals to survive.
To a certain extent his claims are justified, though it is always an issue when you try to use a single stance to explain the actions of a large group of people. It is simply difficult for me to believe that everyone who engages in capitalistic ventures or practices operates under the guise in which Whits says that they do.

]]> Comment on Introduction to Curtis White’s The Spirit of Disobedience by William Schwatrz http://expostfacto.historytools.org/introduction-to-curtis-whites-the-spirit-of-disobedience/#comment-4323 William Schwatrz Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:56:42 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/introduction-to-curtis-whites-the-spirit-of-disobedience/#comment-4323 I do not believe that we are thought to obey. I grew up in Germany when teacher still had the right to beat students who did not conform. Where 14-15 year old hang themselves in barns, or jump in front of a train because they received two D’s, in there finals. Their chances of getting a good job just went out the window! The News media had 10 minutes of world news, 15 min. national, and 5 min. sports. When I moved to my Dad in the U.S. I did another year of High School, I was shocked how relax everyone was. The news media talked for 15 about sports, 2 min world news, 3 min weather, and 10 min. how much milk farmers Joe’s cow gave. I visited East Germany (I grew up in the West) after the wall came down. I received a special tour of Kahla, form a Professor at the Jena University. We walked into a store, which at that time had hardly any food on the shelf, but the beer and hard liquor filled up three shelves. I ask him why they had so much alcohol, he said “you give the people what they want, and they will be happy”. If you want to see what it is like for the media feeding us information you should watch “1984” or visit North Korea. We get what we want, this is why we have Democrats who complain about what the Republicans are doing, and vise versa. No one does what is most important for this country because we can not get together on anything. If all the students would unite, and go on strike, we would pay less for tuition. I do not believe that we are thought to obey. I grew up in Germany when teacher still had the right to beat students who did not conform. Where 14-15 year old hang themselves in barns, or jump in front of a train because they received two D’s, in there finals. Their chances of getting a good job just went out the window! The News media had 10 minutes of world news, 15 min. national, and 5 min. sports. When I moved to my Dad in the U.S. I did another year of High School, I was shocked how relax everyone was. The news media talked for 15 about sports, 2 min world news, 3 min weather, and 10 min. how much milk farmers Joe’s cow gave. I visited East Germany (I grew up in the West) after the wall came down. I received a special tour of Kahla, form a Professor at the Jena University. We walked into a store, which at that time had hardly any food on the shelf, but the beer and hard liquor filled up three shelves. I ask him why they had so much alcohol, he said “you give the people what they want, and they will be happy”. If you want to see what it is like for the media feeding us information you should watch “1984” or visit North Korea. We get what we want, this is why we have Democrats who complain about what the Republicans are doing, and vise versa. No one does what is most important for this country because we can not get together on anything. If all the students would unite, and go on strike, we would pay less for tuition.

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 2 by Angela Anderson http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-2/#comment-4322 Angela Anderson Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:34:47 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-2/#comment-4322 I disagree with Erica I think the Christian golden rule is something Americans should try and live by. It's do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The golden rule is saying if you would like to be respected , you should respect others, and it does not encourage revenge. I really liked this section of White's book. I never looked at Office Space with the view White has. I never looked at the end as a betrayal, but when I thought about what White said he had a really good point. The main character ended up leaving his job, but still ended up conforming. I also like his comments on the Da Vinci Code. I really enjoyed the book, but I understand White's reasoning saying, "The Da Vinci Code's seriousness is deeply unserious." (White 34) The book was a work of fiction and presents many things as truths, typical mass society easily can confuse the two. I disagree with Erica I think the Christian golden rule is something Americans should try and live by. It’s do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The golden rule is saying if you would like to be respected , you should respect others, and it does not encourage revenge. I really liked this section of White’s book. I never looked at Office Space with the view White has. I never looked at the end as a betrayal, but when I thought about what White said he had a really good point. The main character ended up leaving his job, but still ended up conforming. I also like his comments on the Da Vinci Code. I really enjoyed the book, but I understand White’s reasoning saying, “The Da Vinci Code’s seriousness is deeply unserious.” (White 34) The book was a work of fiction and presents many things as truths, typical mass society easily can confuse the two.

]]> Comment on Introduction to Curtis White’s The Spirit of Disobedience by Erica Spurgeon http://expostfacto.historytools.org/introduction-to-curtis-whites-the-spirit-of-disobedience/#comment-4321 Erica Spurgeon Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:52:28 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/introduction-to-curtis-whites-the-spirit-of-disobedience/#comment-4321 I disagree with the fact that we have been taught to obey societies rules. It seems the more society tries to rule us, the more we rebel, hence the reason why our prison rates are so high and why they are prejudice towards minorities. For example, if we truly obeyed everything our teachers asked of us, everyone would have an A in every class--and there would be no attendance sheets because our teachers would have complete faith in knowing we would come to class because we have learned to obey them. I disagree with the fact that we have been taught to obey societies rules. It seems the more society tries to rule us, the more we rebel, hence the reason why our prison rates are so high and why they are prejudice towards minorities. For example, if we truly obeyed everything our teachers asked of us, everyone would have an A in every class–and there would be no attendance sheets because our teachers would have complete faith in knowing we would come to class because we have learned to obey them.

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 2 by Erica Spurgeon http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-2/#comment-4320 Erica Spurgeon Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:49:23 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-2/#comment-4320 First of all, I think that White looks to much into Office Space as a negative thing. Not only is Office Space humurous, but it is a good representation of the real workforce. To me, this movie does not show how our society sees problems but choses not to fix them. I see this movie as a way of letting the working class know that the problems they face are in fact real and noticiable and it's nice to see Hollywood represent your side of the story. As for the "Christian golden rule--do unto others as they do unto you" is not a rule anyone should live by, especially a true Christian. I believe that we are living by the golden rule today. If we feel that someone has betrayed us or hurt us, we go back to them and hurt them with our words or actoins. A true Christian or someone who wants to change the world for the better, does not follow the golden rule, because a "good" person would take the things that people have done to them--good or bad--and do only good unto others. First of all, I think that White looks to much into Office Space as a negative thing. Not only is Office Space humurous, but it is a good representation of the real workforce. To me, this movie does not show how our society sees problems but choses not to fix them. I see this movie as a way of letting the working class know that the problems they face are in fact real and noticiable and it’s nice to see Hollywood represent your side of the story.

As for the “Christian golden rule–do unto others as they do unto you” is not a rule anyone should live by, especially a true Christian. I believe that we are living by the golden rule today. If we feel that someone has betrayed us or hurt us, we go back to them and hurt them with our words or actoins. A true Christian or someone who wants to change the world for the better, does not follow the golden rule, because a “good” person would take the things that people have done to them–good or bad–and do only good unto others.

]]> Comment on Curtis White, The Spirit of Disobedience, 2 by David Voelker http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-2/#comment-4319 David Voelker Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:33:48 +0000 http://expostfacto.historytools.org/curtis-white-the-spirit-of-disobedience-2/#comment-4319 Here and in class, I think that we need further discussion of "radical evil." What does it mean for evil to be institutionalized, as White argues? Here and in class, I think that we need further discussion of “radical evil.” What does it mean for evil to be institutionalized, as White argues?

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